首页 [大师访谈]指弹传奇Pierre Bensusan三哥采访,音乐性最重要!

[大师访谈]指弹传奇Pierre Bensusan三哥采访,音乐性最重要!

发布日期:11/7/2018

“乐手需要记住,他的目的不是为了弹吉他,而是演奏音乐。”

​​Pierre Bensusan

musicality matters most!

音乐性最重要!

“What is very important is to remember that the aim is not to play guitar, it’s to play music.”                                                 Pierre Bensusan

乐手需要记住,他的目的不是为了弹吉他,而是演奏音乐。”

Pierre Bensusan is an acoustic artist with few peers. He respects technique, of course, but regards it as necessary vocabulary and tools with which to find the – the story in the music. This is how he writes. It’s also how he teaches. If you get the chance, experience him up close during his 2017 tour.

Pierre Bensusan是同龄人中少有的原声吉他手。他当然很看重演奏技法,把技巧当做是寻找音乐的工具以及讲述音乐的必要词汇。这既是他的创作理念,也是他的教学理念。

 ​

What’s the most important thing about playing and writing?

在你看来,创作与吉他弹奏中最重要的是什么?

What is very important is to remember people that the aim is not to play guitar, it’s to play music. So it’s not because you know how to play guitar that you’re going to know how to write music, those are two different things.

乐手需要记住,他的目的不是为了弹吉他,而是演奏音乐。所以并非会弹吉他就自然而然会创作音乐了,这是两回事。

Do you value being praised for your “musicality” more than technical virtuosity?

相比技巧,你作品的“音乐性”更多被人提及赞美,你对此开心吗?

Absolutely! Who cares about someone technically brilliant? In fact, what you see is not the technique, especially if you have your eyes closed, and you listen, you don’t need to see, your eyes become your ears. So the technique, we need a lot of technique, it’s like vocabulary. We need a lot vocabulary in order to express ourselves, to express an opinion, the mind, to go deep into-to being precise about what you feel, what you want to transmit.

当然了,谁会在意技巧的高低?事实上观众看到的也不是技巧,特别是就近观察时,眼睛就让位给了耳朵。技巧当然还是需要的,它就像是我们讲述故事的词汇,懂得很多词汇才能更好地表达自己、表达观点、思想,对你的感觉以及想要传达的东西做出更生动的诠释。

You try to solve an issue, and you work in order to resolve it, and you create the new word in your vocabulary of technique. And so the technique is only there to help you to transcend something that you want to express. The thing is, anytime, in order for the technique to be in yourself, you need to repeat it, you need to work your physical memory, your audio memory, until you have it inside, and you forgot that it’s inside, but the music will remember where to go, to take it, if it needs it, yeah?

每一次碰到技术上的难题并尝试解决的过程,都是增加了自己的技术词汇。而这个词汇就只是帮助你表述你想要传达的一些东西。要想让某种技术成为自己的词汇,就必须通过不断的重复,让身体形成物理记忆。在将其内化后,再忘了它的存在。音乐本身会知道该往哪个方向走。

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If you could choose three songs to introduce your music, what would they be?

如果让你选择三首曲子代表自己,你会选择什么呢?

“So Long Michael” and “The Alchemist” from my live record called “Encore”. Those versions are live and I prefer them to the studio versions. And the one called “Feeding the Birds”, where I whistle as well and I use a loop. I don’t use a loop anymore, but at that time I used a loop to record a chord progression and then I was playing a solo on top of it.

来自我现场专辑“Encore”的“So Long Michael”和“The Alchemist”,相比录音室版本,我更喜欢这两首的现场版。还有一首叫“Feeding the Birds”,我在里面吹了口哨,使用了循环器。现在已经不用循环器了,不过当时我用循环器录了一段和弦进行,然后在此基础上弹了段独奏。

You speak with great passion about your approach to teaching.

你谈起自己的教学来总是充满热情。

Of course, you cannot do what you do without passion, and it’s not only about passion, because the passion is the drive. It’s the engine – it gives the fuel. But you need also to spend time. You need to validate things. You need to cultivate your memory. You need to repeat things until they are really enrooted, and so your need to work your physical memory, your audio memory, your situational memory. When you have the time, then all the questions you ask find their response.

当然,没有热情的事情就不会去做了。但我拥有的不仅是热情,热情是我的内驱力,同时我还有能持续投入的动力。当然时间也是必不可少的投入,需要时间去验证一些知识,培养记忆形成。需要不断重复让技巧动作根深蒂固、养成肌肉记忆、声音记忆以及环境记忆。只要投入时间练习,你的问题都会自然迎刃而解。

On giving time to time

给时间点耐心                                               

       

It’s very hard to grab our attention for more than five minutes, it seems like in this world today. It is totally the other way around then to enter in the music world where you have to be so patient, so tenacious, so within the moment, but also within time. You need to give time to time, if you want a fast result, go and play the stock market, don’t play music. You see what I’m saying?

在如今资讯碎片化的趋势下,我们的注意力很难集中在一件事情上超过五分钟。时代不同了,曾经想要进入音乐的世界,需要非常多的耐心与持之以恒的毅力。需要投入时间,给时间一些耐心。如果只是想要立竿见影的效果,那不如去股票市场,为什么要从事音乐行业呢?

On the magic of it all

音乐的魔力

The instrument is only a way to get to that place that we call music, that we cannot really define, but that I want to think that we recognize it when we hear it. We don’t know why, but we do know we are addressing something special, that sometimes we say “magical,” you know. It is, in fact. We can analyze it, we can look at what is there that makes it work, we can look at what is missing that makes it not work, that doesn’t make it work, but we cannot explain why music- what it is.

乐器只是我们抵达音乐的工具。而音乐的魅力无法用语言去定义,但我希望那是种听到就能够辨认出的东西。我们也许依然懵懂,然而在心底却知道自己所追寻的,是种很特别的存在,偶尔我们称之为“魔力”。听到一段音乐,它是否具有那种特别的魅力,我们能够辨认的出。但却无法解释清楚,这音乐为何如此动人。

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Where is home?

家住在何处?

One hour East of Paris. It’s a little village, 200 people live here. I could not live in a big city anymore. When we were young, my wife and I used to live downtown Paris. We had this tiny apartment that we loved. Then wanted to have a family and to have a recording studio, a dancing studio. The only way was to have a house and to move out. No way we could afford to stay in Paris and have that!

距离巴黎向东一小时的距离,是个仅有200人居住的小镇。我现在住不了大城市了。年轻时我和妻子住在巴黎市中心一个小小的公寓,很温馨。我们想成立家庭,有一个录音工作室一个舞蹈工作室。实现的方式只能是买一个大房子搬走。但我们可负担不起巴黎的大房子。

On using your ear to tune

用耳朵调弦

The first thing we do is to put the digital tuners back in the knapsack and we don’t see the tuner at all for a week. People can use their ears, because if you cannot use your ear for tuning, why would you assume that you can use your ears, the same ears that you don’t trust, to play music and to listen to what you play? You know what I mean? It’s very interesting to see that people lack this confidence in their own ability to listen, so this is something that we do address.

首先要做的就是把数字调音器放回背包里,让自己一周见不到它。大家就开始用耳朵听音调弦。因为如果你无法信任自己的耳朵能够分辨音高调整琴弦,那凭什么相信能用耳朵去倾听我们所弹奏的音乐呢?懂我的意思吗?这真的很有意思,人们对自己的耳朵不自信,所以这一点必须要强调。

What do we need to “un-learn”?

有什么是我们需要“忘记”的吗?

Sometimes, faster musicians are a bit left in the desert, you know? They have cultivated a strong motivation, a strong drive, but they have a lot “un-education”. Like myself, because I’m self-taught, so I know exactly what I’m talking about. I’ve been learning things, but I have also just spent time to “un-learn” what I learned. And so I try to, in fact, help those people to optimize their time, and to optimize what they know, and to transform their desire into something tangible, which is going to be music, at the end of the day.

有时步子走太快的音乐家有点像是被扔在了荒漠中。他们有很充足的动力与积极性,但却在受教育方面有所缺失。比如因为我是自学入行的,所以很清楚这种感觉。我学了很多东西,也用了很多时间去将所学的东西忘掉。而我会尝试帮助其他乐手减少时间和精力的浪费,将他们的愿望变成具体的知识,也就是音乐上的造诣。

How would you describe your residential workshop students?

你工作室的驻店学徒是一群怎样的人呢?

I have people coming from all over, from Australia, Japan, China, of course United States, all over Europe, France. So it’s very interesting, because the groups are totally multicultural, multi-ethnic, and people are all together. They share the same passion for music and the same inhibitions sometimes. And after one day they start to be so friendly together, so comprehensive, so open to each other.

他们来自世界各地,澳大利亚、日本、中国,当然还有美国法国,欧洲各地。所以很有意思,在我们的团队中不同文化和民族背景的人聚集在一起。拥有同样对音乐的热情,也会被同一个问题所困扰。熟悉了一天之后,大家就能有好相处了,就是要保持开放的心态。

What do you mean by “re-educating your ears?”

你所过要“重新调教你的耳朵”,是什么意思呢?

It’s an instrument, we are talking about the instrument, so the agenda to transpose music on an instrument is the same for every musician. It does require you to listen carefully, profoundly, deeply, analytically, precisely, and to remember. Your ears become like a tape recorder that not only remembers melody, harmony, chords, notes, but also the pitch, the tonality. You start to re-educate your ears so that your ear becomes extremely sharp, very very sharp. We were talking about tuning, but, in fact, when people tune their guitar they essentially tune themselves. In order to tune correctly, you need to be tuned in yourself. And so a lot of people are totally not aligned when they start tuning, this is why they lack confidence, and use [digital] tuners.The thing is that a tuner will never be as accurate as your ear can be.

耳朵也是一种工具,所以跟练习任何一种创作音乐的工具一样,耳朵也需要调教。你需要仔细、彻底、深入地去听,带着思考、音准精确、进行记忆。让你的耳朵变成录音机,不仅能够记录旋律、和声、和弦和音符,也能熟悉音调和音高。你开始重新打磨自己的耳朵,使其变得非常灵敏。说是调音,人们在给吉他调音的时候其实是在做自我调整。很多人自己都没调整好,所以调音时才会很不自信,转而使用电子调音器。但事实是,机器永远比不上人而精确。

Do you tour with one guitar?

你有巡演专用吉他吗

I’ve been touring with one guitar, my old Lowden that George [Louden] built for me in 1978.
The guitar is just so amazing. It’s an elixir of sound, and for this guitar -it’s like coming home. If a guy was saying to me “I’ll give you half a million dollars for this guitar,” I don’t even think I would sell it. I can’t. You cannot sell your friend, who is the confidante of all your emotions. You can’t, there’s no price. And it’s a sound, the sound has no price. You cannot put a price on such a good muse, you cannot buy everything.

我巡演时会带着一把吉他,就是Lowden在1978年为我定制的那把Lowden那把吉他特别棒,简直是声音的万能药,它能给我回家的感觉。哪怕有人出价一百万美元想买下我的吉他,我也不会卖。它熟悉我的所有感情起伏,就像一个老朋友,是无价的,怎么可能卖掉它呢?而且它的声音能带给人无限灵感,本身也是无价的,不是所有东西都能用来买卖。

Talk to me about a few of your acoustic heroes.

能说几位你比较欣赏的原声吉他手吗?

Paco de Lucia, for instance, that’s maybe the most important one, but there is another guy from Brazil who is Egberto Gismonti. I also love George Benson. I love John McLaughlin, Ralph Towner, Jimi Hendrix. There are so many players. Of course, I mention only guitar players, there are composers like Bach, Beethoven, Handel, Debussy, Faure. I love those people, you know. I grew up listening to them. It’s amazing to see the commitment that they had. It was a mythical commitment that goes beyond everything.

比如Paco de Lucia,他对我的影响也许是最大的。此外还有巴西吉他手Egberto Gismonti。我也很喜欢George Benson,还有John McLaughlin、Ralph Towner、Jimi Hendrix,太多了。当然我提到的都是吉他手,还有我爱的作曲家们,比如Bach、Beethoven、Handel、Debussy、Faure,从小就听他们的作品。他们对音乐庆祝的热情令我感到敬佩,那是一种无与伦比的热爱。

How old were you when you started?

你几岁开始接触音乐的?

I was six when I played the piano, six or seven, and the guitar I think I was 11.

开始弹钢琴实在6、7岁。11岁开始接触吉他。

Do you remember your first acoustic guitar?

你还记得自己第一把原声吉他吗?

Yes! It was a guitar given to me by my father, who was a big fan of Django Reinhardt. I didn’t know what to do with it, so it stayed in the cabinet for several months, collecting dust, until a friend of mine from school saw it. I didn’t even know how to tune it, I didn’t know how to change strings.” So he went out, bought strings, told me how to tune it and showed me a few chords – and that was it. That’s my guitar teacher, the guy from school. He has been my only official teacher, everything else I found by myself, listening to other people.

记得,是我爸爸给我的,他是Django Reinhardt的忠实粉丝。我当时不知道该怎么处理,就在阁楼放了几个月。后来学校的一个朋友看到了,可我当时连调弦和换弦都不会。那个朋友去买了琴弦,告诉我该怎么调弦,还教了我几个和弦。就这样,学校的一个朋友成了我的吉他老师。他也可以算是我唯一的老师,其他都靠我自己听别人的演奏进行自学。

What do you enjoy most about performing?

在表演中你最享受什么?

I love performing for people, because I grew up from there. It’s something which for me is a growing experience all the time, it’s endless. I feel I play better when I play for people, and I feel also that you are in a very unique community experience. Nothing comes close to this. For me, I need to have the audience, to have the urgency of the commitment with the audience, to feel them, sometimes to even look at some eyes in the audience, for the magic to trigger, you know.

我喜欢表演给大家,因为我也是看着别人的表演长大的,这对我来说是一个成长的过程。我感觉谈给别人听的时候,自己会发挥的比较好。而且这也是非常特别的,与周围人相处的经历。我是很需要观众的,有迫切想要感知观众的愿望,甚至有时想要与观众对视,感觉像是触发了魔法一刻。

If you could see one acoustic show this year, who would it be?

今年如果选一场原声吉他表演,你会选哪一场?

Take 6. I would love to see them again, I saw them in Paris. When I said “acoustic” – those six guys sing, that’s all they do. A Capella. Cannot be more acoustic than that.

Take 6,之前在巴黎见过他们的表演,我很期待再次欣赏。不过这里的“原声”,指的是纯人声,他们六个人唱阿卡贝拉,这是最纯粹的原声表演了。

What causes are you passionate about?

你现在感兴趣的事情有哪些?

There are many out there.From the top of my head, anything which goes in the direction of acceptance, of tolerance, of sharing, of rescuing people, helping others, all those causes are for me. They’re extremely important and we should help them.

太多了。能想到的,我对所有跟接纳、宽容、分享、救赎、帮助他们人有关的事情,都怀有热情。这些都很重要,我们应该努力帮助他人。Lowden Pierre Bensusan签名款原声吉他

Lowden Pierre Bensusan签名款原声吉他

转载自[acoustic life原声生活]​​​​

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